HOWEDY liea you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
slanderin dog abusin punk thug coward active accute chronic
life-long incurable malignant maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE,
"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
> npanko wrote:
>> We have a great pyr/ saint mix. He is 14 months old and we have had
>> him for 6 months. He has been a great dog since we have gotten him. We
>> are able to leave him unattended in the house with no problems
>> (except a few destroyed toys). We recently started a house renovation.
>> Since this has happened, he
>> has been escaping out house. We went out of town and he jumped out of
>> our windows (through the screens). He even know how to open the
>> windows if they are not locked. Also, he has been getting out of our
>> 6 foot privacy fence. Once he is gone, he wanders with no thought to
>> watch out for cars. I would love to keep my windows open, but he
>> leaves. Any suggestions? We could really use some help!
Well, looks like npanko has come to the RIGHT place, eh, liea??
> This is a tough one.
You mean on accHOWENTA you and most of your punk
thug coward active acute chronic life long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE PALS GOT THE SAME
> Roaming is great fun for dogs.
That's curiHOWES. Dogs are TERRORTORIAL critters by nature.
> Now that he's discovered how to do it, it's very self-rewarding.
That's ABSURD, liea.
> I had a dog once that escaped through screens and broke windows.
Naaaah? You mean, besides your current dog, Cubbe?:
"Might Cubbe Be Ready For Harsher Training Techniques?
I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She *trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help:
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
"Cubbe Got Out In The Neighborhood Leashless: It Was
Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With Her Usual
ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To Give Cubbe
A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap. I don't even think she broke
the kid's skin and as far as I'm concerned, it was the kid's own
fault. Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away. I got
Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary thing is that,
even though the damage is minor, it does qualify as a bite
since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let Cubbe
greet someone like that again, but I'm horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even with
kids when we meet them in the neighborhood."
AND THEN Cubbe ATTACKED TWO CHILDREN
standing in her SHOCK ZONE inside her HOWES
and an innocent child at the park, your veterinarian,
your boyfriend and an elderly dog while on leash!
> Once she was outside, she didn't go far, just found a dog to play with and
> hung out.
UNlike your current dog, Cubbe, who seeks protection from
your neighbor's Rottweiller who won't let you in his yard.
> She was perfect when we were home with her, impossible to contain when we
> were gone. We tried a crate, and that's what
> I'm going to suggest you try first, but it took our Houdini 2 weeks to
> figure out how to get out of that.
Naaaah? Oh, you mean like MOST of your pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE PALS who's own dogs GOT THE SAME
> Eventually, we used a steel cable tie-out for when we couldn't be with
> her. Normally, I don't love the idea of tie-outs, but that worked for our
> dog. We think she liked being able to see the outside world and interact
> with the occasional neighbor who would walk by and pet her.
> I'll be interested to hear others' suggestions.
From: d0006... RemoveThis @dc.seflin.org (Julia F N Altshuler)
Date: 8 Apr 2001 12:27:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Lost dog - Pointe-Claire, West Island of Montreal
I know this advice is late, and I hope it's not hurtful at this point,
but we got an electric fence Cubbe, and it's working great.
She used to escape the regular fence and cause us all the anxiety
you're currently going through. Every time we though we'd thought
of everything to make the fence secure, she'd find another way out.
The wire for the electric fence now goes up next to the real
fence so she gets zapped if she goes too near.
Now she can enjoy running around her yard but can't get close
enough to the fence to figure out a way under, over or through.
Best wishes. I really do know what you're going through.
--Lia, building good memories with Cubbe --"
Julia F N Altshuler (d0006...@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST
Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.
For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.
Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.
For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.
She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent
treats for those recalls. She gets plenty of time to run free
in the backyard.
Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.
So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.
Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard
time. I'd gotten her into the house and was preparing to
leave when she escaped straight through the front door
and right in front of our noses.
She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.
We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.
Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap
collar now with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the
backdoor to come in when I went to call her. From her
excited behavior, I could tell that she fully expected
to be let out the front door again so she could have
another fun romp in the neighborhood.
I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.
Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.
My specific questions:
How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?
She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and
could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.
If I let her get zapped at the front door with the zap collar,
can I still take the zap collar off and walk her out the front
door with her leash on?
I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.
What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?
Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques?
By this I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for
Cubbe because she so obviously freaked when we used
leash corrections and scoldings when we first got her.
I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?
Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved Cubbe
and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on and
how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.
Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.
Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.
I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let
her know that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relationship.
I let Cubbe up and all was fine.
I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part
of wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.
Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing
with Cubbe the escapee?
AND LIKE THIS:
"Okay, I'm dealing with Cubbe, but she doesn't get along with other
dogs, and I'm going to have to accept that. There isn't a day that
goes by when I don't wish I could let her run up to every dog on the
street like I used to with all my other dogs. I used to love taking
my other dogs to an off-leash park, but I can't do that with Cubbe."
"Julia Altshuler" wrote in message
I need help deciding if I have a real problem with
Cubbe that needs immediate attention or if I'm
imagining trouble where there is none.
Here's what happened last April the way I described
it to a friend at the time:
I'm worried about Cubbe. Or rather, I'm kicking
myself for doing something stupid. Ellie has been
over many times and has always gotten along great
with Cubbe. Cubbe is always at the door when I let
She's barky-protective but then stops barking once
Ellie is inside. She's never shown any real
aggression. The other night Ellie and I went out
together to run an errand.
Ellie was coming in the house with packages so
I came in first and put Cubbe in the bedroom with
Jim so Ellie could get through the door more easily.
I could hear Cubbe barking. Once Ellie was inside,
I opened the bedroom door for Cubbe. She ran out
to attack the intruder.
Ellie was trying to be friendly.
Ellie put a tooth in Ellie's finger. Granted the resulting
scratch was no worse than the way my cuticles bleed
when they get dry and I don't rub lotion into them every
night, but Ellie was understandably scared.
Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away.
I got Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary
thing is that, even though the damage is minor, it
does qualify as a bite since Cubbe did mean to do it.
I guess I should just learn from it and never let
Cubbe greet someone like that again, but I'm
horribly torn up.
I've said that I would never keep an aggressive
dog. Now the whole issue is so complicated.
Cubbe is great even with kids when we meet
them in the neighborhood.
Since then I've been careful not to do anything like that.
Then Halloween night Cubbe spent most of the
night in the computer room with Jim while I answered
the door. She did bark each time she heard the
doorbell ring. We did nothing to discourage that.
We want her to be barky protective so
it made sense for her to bark when she
heard people in the neighborhood, especially
at night. Later in the evening, Jim put Cubbe
on a leash and was hanging out with her in the
front hall while I still got the door. One of the first
people to come to the door once she was out of the
computer room was our neighbor Nicky.
I think Nicky is 11 now. He's known Cubbe since
we got her 4 years ago, has always liked her, petted
her and asked to come on walks. Nick lifted his mask
on the porch so I'd know who it was.
Then I invited him into the hall to pet Cubbe.
Cubbe snarled and sort of air snapped at him.
Of course Jim was right there so no damage was
done. Nick didn't even have to draw his hand away,
and he didn't get scared.
Nothing scares that boy.
I don't like this. Twice now Cubbe has been overly
protective-aggressive when people have entered the
Both times they've been people she knows and
should like. She's wonderfully nice to people on
walks. We don't have guests over too often so
I can't comment if it's a growing thing or not.
Comments please. Is this a major growing
I'd guess it's territoriality about the house and yard.
What do I do about it?
I usually put Cubbe on a leash when friends come over
and then walk her outside while the friend gets out of
her car, and then we walk in together.
She'll still bark when they're in the house and then
calm down. Is that a good idea? Should I be
doing something more to make sure this doesn't
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST
Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.
Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.
I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.
Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.
Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.
Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.
Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.
A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance.
Jo and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)
Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.
Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?
Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?
Or other theories?
Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?
Here's some more EXXXCELLENT advice from liea:
Hey liea? Remember when you used to post daily
and weekly WARNINGS to KILLFILE the only
poster who knows HOWE to TRAIN ALL dogs
and ALL BEHAVIORS NEARLY INSTANTLY
simply by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental
cases been doin it, liea?:
163 for author:jaltshu...@attbi.com "occasional post"
OT: occasional post-Broken rib-DOGS DON'T WORK CREDIT
.... I try to notify each new person who posts with the
following "occasional post" to help new people learn
to killfile faster and to waste less time in public argument.
I hope the following helps. ...
Jun 17 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 15 messages - 9 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-I'm outa here
And if you blocked the arguing, you'd see only a nice
helpful friendly group. Not only that, if you didn't post
messages like the one you just did, you wouldn't be
adding to the problem. --
Mar 12 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 55 messages - 20 authors
OT: occasional post-4 month old puppy still pees in her
I post this informational message occasionally. I try
to post it in answer to first posts by people who might
not be familiar with this newsgroup or anywhere else
it might be useful. This is rec.pets.dogs.behavior (rpdb). ..
Apr 25 2002 by Julia Altshuler - 14 messages - 5 authors
OT: occasional post-this newsgroup-Barking. Help please
John, Please don't answer him or copy his messages.
The rest of us have him killfiled and wouldn't know he
was there if you didn't.
Here's the canned message with more information: This message ...
Mar 14 2003 by Julia Altshuler - 10 messages - 7 authors
From: abadabracadab... RemoveThis @aol.com (ABADABRACADABRAH)
Date: 17 Aug 2004 15:54:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Eggplant ! Eggplant! 
> Subject: Eggplant ! Eggplant! 
> From: Julia Altshuler jaltshu... RemoveThis @comcast.net
> Date: 8/17/04 11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> Please, folks. Remember to label your posts when you're
> arguing with trolls. So many threads are troll arguments
> these days that I can't keep track of which ones to delete
> without reading. We either do or do not have new
> Either way, label them with the [eggplant] tag.
> I'm quick to killfile everybody.
You're INSANE, liea.
> Subject: Re: house training problem [ninnyboy]
> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:57:02 GMT
> The dog groups have a newsgroup nut
You shock and jerk and choked your dog Cubbe till
she ATTACKED your only friend and tied to attack
a couple kids and did attack your neighbor's old
> who yells at everyone and never goes away.
You're a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE, liea.
> Just ignore him, or put him in your killfile.
Perhaps you should bring back your occasional
daily and weekly warnings?
> That's what everyone else does.
That so? HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is the most pupular topic in the Whole
Wild World amongst dog lovers?
> Whatever you do, don't copy his messages.
You're a paranoid mental case, liea.
> That's a lot of bandwidth.
You're a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, liea.
135 results for insubject: occasional post
From: Julia Altshuler
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 03:46:53 GMT
Subject: OT: occasional post-this newsgroup
He *is* nuts. Don't answer him.
This message is posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior (r.p.d.b.)
regularly and occasionally to other newsgroups including
alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.rescue, alt.pets.dog, and
rec.pets.dogs.misc. These are unmoderated groups meaning
that no one checks the messages to make sure they're on-
topic, civil or sensible before they go through.
The purpose of this occasional posting is to give information
about the newsgroup so that discussion about the newsgroup
itself is cut down and discussion about dogs increases.
Like so many usenet groups, this group has people who
post annoyingly and constantly, people who post angry
and abusive messages, people who post to irritate others.
It's up to individuals to decide which posters bother them.
Here are some guidelines that many people follow to
make this newsgroup pleasant and informative:
1. Use your killfile. A killfile (or filter) makes invisible
posts by any particular person or with any particular words
in the subject line.
The posts are still there, but they don't show up on the
screen of the person using the killfile. Look at
2. Don't make more noise. The only thing more annoying
than a troll is an otherwise rational person arguing with or
about a troll.
That's known as feeding the trolls. Please don't feed the
trolls. It really is insane to attempt rational discussion with
3. Want to exercise your right to free speech and argue
about or with trolls anyway? Put "ninnyboy" in the
subject line. That way the people who want to join the
fracas can, and those who don't can opt out by killfiling
"ninnyboy." If you don't do this, expect to be killfiled
yourself. [Jerry], with the brackets is also a recognized
4. Figured out that arguing with trolls is useless but
still want to talk about trolls by referring to them in
the third person? Put "ninnyboy" in the subject line
then too. That subject is boring too.
5. Trim quoted posts to include only the part you're
responding to. Quoting an entire long post in order to
respond to only a small piece of it is annoying. Again,
if you don't do this, expect to be killfiled.
6. Understand Candace. Candace is an automatic
program that answers troll posts automatically,
repetititively and relentlessly.
Most of us find these posts boring after a
short while and killfile it too.
That's O.K. You can't hurt its feelings.
7. Show no fear. Have a question or need to admit that
you've made errors in dog training in the past? This is
still a good place to come for (often contradictory) advice.
Use your own judgment to decide what advice to follow
and what not to. No harm can come to you even if people
vehemently disagree, call you names or repost your old
8. Label off-topic threads as "OT." A label helps people
decide what to read and what not to.
9. Check the F.A.Q. for answers to frequent non-
10. Don't post pictures. This is not a binary newsgroup.
That's plain text only, no HTML, no attachments. If you'd
like, post a pointer to a website with pictures on it.
11. Don't crosspost. It's bad enough when someone posts
something dog related to all the groups having to do with
dogs. It's worse when totally unrelated groups get tossed
in the mix. Feel like you absolutely have to jump in on
something that's been crossposted to unrelated groups?
Erase the extraneous ones when you answer.
From: Julia Altshuler
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:53:18 GMT
Subject: OT - Should I bring back the occasional post?
The subject line says it all.
When I started posting the occasional post, the idea
was to help new people understand what's going on with
the annoyances on this newsgroup
I wanted to help them understand that anything they had
to say on the subject had been said before, wouldn't do
any long term good and would bore a bunch of people in
the short term. I stopped because I wasn't sure I was
accomplishing my goal. Now I'm not so sure. I'm seeing
so many unmarked arguments with the annoyances.
I'm not taking a vote, but I do care what the regulars think.
For new people, the occasional post is as follows. Do you
think that seeing it when you first started posting would
Would it be more useful if it weren't so precise and wordy?
Maybe something shorter? I'm thinking it needs an update.
SEE? >> Stay informed about: Excaping my house -- Help